Talk:Conflux/Advanced Guide for Champion Selection

• Corrected spelling…
• I'm about to move all relevant information about the Gaze of Fate onto a special page.
  • This allows to give away the information that you can have an additional champion without having a direct spoiler.
  • This allows for a better Layout of the Emerald's description, and moves the spoiler away from the unique items page.
  • This allows to have less spoilers on the Oracle's place description page.
  • Therefore I've added an "Inactive Champion" chapter to this page
    • This is referenced at all relevant places where the maximum Champion number is of importance, not just once like before.
• Added the two remaining Champions of the Game: "Hero" and "Throm" from the Deathtrap Dungeon.
  • To do: describe those Champions on the Champions' page.
  • Chosing this path gives you fewer Champion choices (and thus fewer possible game endings) in the main part of Conflux, therefore I included the section here. Since a WIP004 version with accessible Deathtrap Dungeon exists, this is also not to be considered outdated information.
• More special abilities added:
  • Alex and Leyla can perform two special actions to obtain (relatively unimportant) items.
  • Informational abilities:
    • I took those from the Levels Notes, and verified that the texts still existed in 3.5B6 on the SCK site when unsure:
      • Zed and Nabi have informational texts not mentioned before.
      • Leif's informational ability added, he was listed, but without any text.
      • Tiggy, Stamm, Chani can also provide information, they were not listed before.
  • Changed "can cast" to "unlocks" for the special spells, because any party member can cast the spells after unlocking. I made two tests immediately after reincarnating the needed Champions:
    • Successfully pickpocketed a Giggler in the Room of Fate with Hero and Throm multiple times.
    • Successfully cast "Speed" with Hero and Throm.

--CHF 19:57, 5 November 2012 (CET)

The Emerald of Fate should have its own page for the reasons you listed.

Instead of adding Hero and Throm to the Champions page, it would probably be better to add them and their descriptions to a Death Trap Dungeon page.

Such a page already exists; but the page with the other Champions would be more logical and has got an appropriate structure. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Messages are not generally unique ablities.

If they are tied to a character, they are. White messages are not, but those in a Champion's colour are unique abilities of that Champion unless other Champions can say the same as well, but I'm not aware of any such message. Where is the difference between "Champion X opens a door at location Y that no other Champion can open." and "Champion X speaks a sentence at location Y which no other Champion can say."? In General, opening doors is no more a special ability than reading messages. The first ability opens locations being otherwise inaccessible, the latter provides additional information which you otherwise didn't have. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Anyone can obtain the gems with a dagger in both places. Leyla may tell you about it, but the ability is not locked to her.

I've probably not tested that systematically, but I thought to remember that I wasn't successful without her. I especially don't remember if I tried to retrieve the Gem blindly without getting the message and having Leyla with me. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Same thing with Iaido's lockpicks and the Treasury. Any Champion can use the lockpicks on the SAR door (it won't open obviously) and then move to the Master Thief's prison and get the information message about having him open the door.

This is why I have removed this "requirement" from the Levels Notes. This was a relic from a game version where Iaido had the lockpicks. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

The boot of speed are locked to Alex Ander's character being there to open, so that is a special ability.

Zed's ability is to read all languages (runes (scrambled text) and pictographs) therefore the Moria reference was redundant.

There are messages which didn't look like inscriptions to me: "{12,31,8}ZED SAYS I FEEL SOME FRESH AIR FROM UPSTAIRS" for example, those were in the Moria, so I added that. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

I hadn't completed the Leif entry before I had to do other things.

I've removed Tiggy for now because that one message is not a special ability.

See above for the reason why I consider this to be a special ability as well. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Only Stamm unlocks a door in the tomb of Balin and can read text found there and thus that is a special ability.

I left Chani with a spoiler text, but the the unlock for the worm invokation can be done by any Champion.

I didn't write (or mean to write) that only she can unlock the place or the spell, but that only she gives a hint; this helps you both to find the place, since you are notified of its existance, as well as unlocking the spell, because she suggests to drown a worm. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

If you successfully pickpocketed, why didn't you update the Spell component necessary for the spell?

Because I was working on the "Gaze of Fate" special item page, which I will complete first. I didn't need a component. I chased a Giggler into a wall niche, then stole back a shield and my flask several times from it. The item will appear on the mouse cursor, so this cursor must probably be empty. Perhaps it is worth testing first if it matters to which character the mouse cursor belongs (the active one performing also the "pickup" and "button press" actions…) --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Phoenix 21:23, 5 November 2012 (CET)

I wrote "will unlock" and not "can unlock", because this happens inevitably as soon as you reincarnate or resurrect the Champion. There is no random factor involved or additional action needed, you especially don't need to read the scroll the Champion is carrying. --CHF 22:49, 5 November 2012 (CET)

Edit after, not inline it completely messes up the dialog.

Such a page already exists; but the page with the other Champions would be more logical and has got an appropriate structure.

It's unnessesary clutter since DTD is deprecated. As for the structure, it's just:

"{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" |!colspan="3"|Champion Name |- | File:Champion Image || health/stamina/mana - weight Kg
str/dex/wiz/vit/a-m/a-f
level/level/level/level||

• Carrying.

|} "

I've successfully retrieved the saphire in Spiders! without her multiple times in multiple games. Obviously you need Leyla to get to the sapphire in ROS, but the game code is a simple swap object just like the riddles.

Again hints and informational text are NOT special abilities. I don't particularly care if you don't. Zed is unique in this respect. Special abilities directly relate to Fragments of the annuls of the Guild. Other text and informational messages are best left for individual Places pages.

Towards that end, I've re-added Tiggy with at least part of her unique abilities. I've also moved the special actions on the Unique Items page to this table.

Can, in English, doesn't necessarily dictate probability. The whole table is structured around what the Champion *can* do. Also, it's doesn't matter. If you don't choose that particular Champion, then you *can't* unlock that spell.

I was using the wrong runes for pickpocket. Got it to work now.

Phoenix 01:14, 6 November 2012 (CET)