Talk:Conflux/Places

There is a problem with renaming places: all existing links will break, articles become inaccessible. The wiki software has got a special function to rename articles, but I don't know how to find all outdated references, so I suggest to not simply correct the spellings to reflect the in-game naming. Examples: (Black) Crypt, Food Storage(s). There is also the problem that old work will be buried and done twice rather than enhanced. It should not happen that old references go to an existing page, while new ones for the same place are created and are shown in red (i.e. non-existant). I unfortunately don't know yet how to do article renamings right, and find and repair all possibly broken links to them, but that is what has to be done in such a case. --CHF 00:54, 8 October 2012 (CEST)

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I'm not sure I understand. The last part of a wiki hyper-link is the important display name. This part should always reflect what a player sees in the actual game or the link is useless. For example * [ [Conflux/Places/Food Storages|Food Storages] ] (Level 00), as long as we only change the information after the "|", then changes shouldn't matter. In the game, the actual text next the stairs to that area is "To The Food Storages". The revised entry could be * [ [Conflux/Places/Food Storages|Food Storage] ] (Level 00), if or when Zyx decides to change it in the game. He is the ultimate determiner of Conflux cannon. If I've gone and done the opposite, then I appologies for making a mistake. If a change is needed, the only thing we change is the text after the "|", but spelling, even if wrong, needs to be left as is until Zyx is notified and makes the change in the game. If you check the Cerberus page, you'll note that I made specific mention of the spelling/grammer errors. When wip004 is released, I will remove the annotations on the errors. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

There's a problem with not updating old page names: the page will have the old, and possibly wrong headline. Links will be named correctly, but following them leads to a differently named page. There is a page moving function, though. It seems that this also creates a redirection for the old name, which would solve the problem. I'll investigate that. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

This is actually my first time making wiki entries, so I'm bound to make some mistakes. All I'm looking for is consistancy with the game and the online special maps. A lot of effort was put into making them, and they are referenced by the various in game password map scrolls. One of your edits, the Chamberlain's room is actually listed on the online Council map as Chambellan, but it is Chamberlain in scrolls(Nabi also "talks" about him if you have him in your party). I took the spelling from the map not the game, so that was a good catch on your part. I don't know how hard it would be to fix the online map.

Moria is listed a Moria in both the online maps and in the game. The "Path to Moria" is a problematic one in that there are multiple entry points to it. You can enter it from the pit on the Crypt, the pit on the Spiders level near the Phasing Shower(which will need an entry, I just added the entry on the spells page for the worm invokation spell where that is unlocked there) and the Mothers of the Egg Chamber room, the pit in teleport room, and the pit in High Sentinel.

The majority on the entries on the places list don't even exist yet, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. A great number of places need to be added to the list to really make it complete. Maybe what we really need is a convention such as Conflux/Places/LevelName/PlaceName|Place_Name before we start populating the places pages. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

There's the following danger: be [Conflux/Places/a|a] listed in red on [Conflux/Places]. This be also referenced on another page [Conflux/foo] as [Conflux/Places/a|whatever text]. Now we correct the spelling in [Conflux/Places] to: [Conflux/Places/A|A] (in capitals) and edit that page so the link becomes blue and contains information. From this time on the link on the page [Conflux/foo] will still reference [Conflux/Places/a] and remain red. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

I'm not deterred by the prospect of orphaned articles. In fact, I will contact Megar, the DM wiki admin, as ask him for a text dump of the Conflux wiki index to see if there are indeed such pages. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

See above, not only orphaned articles as a whole, you need to repair any old links. Links are a many-to-one relation. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

Also, I was under the impression that the Black Crypt was a separate place on the Crypt level. I was led to believe that the Black Crypt is the area between Vecna's lair and the Alter of Nightmare. The undead champions' mirrors are accessed there. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

Yes, I almost agree: it's only a part of the whole Crypt, but if I remember correctly, there's a wall inscription at the south-eastern corner of the level near the stairs to the Sewers. So the Black Crypt would be the area where you find ZO EW NETA, between the Altar of the Assault, the stairs to the Tomb of Druafang, the stairs to the Sewers, and the portcullis to the main part of the Crypt. On the opposite side to this portcullis lies the Amber Crypt. ---CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

Now, as for the old work. Much of it is frankly wrong/out-dated. Most of it originated with Conflux2. I've talked with Zyx about it, and he agreed to let me update it. Until I updated the Champions page, the original champions had items that are now distributed across the game and are part of thier personal "Emerald of Fate" quests. Items have been renamed(A Vorple blade used to be called a Voidness Edge), Zed's horn was "The Fright Trump", and so on. As Conflux evolves, so too must the wiki to reflect those changes. You used to get 5 competition points for each fiery Cerberus; now it's 5 for just the first. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

That information had distracted me at first. I then began to correct it in the maps (example: description of the Master Thief riddle, I mentioned there that you don't need Gando, just lockpicks), but continued mostly to mention both names (Vorpal Blade/Voidness Edge), where several exist between versions. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

The Recommended paths and strategies is a mess. Should we change this from:

   * Conflux/Path of Parallax
         o Parallax adventure journal with the Maleficient Guild 
   * Conflux/Path of Antman
   * Conflux/Path of Beowuuf
   * Path of Joramun 

to

   * Conflux/Path of Parallax
         o Parallax adventure journal with the Maleficient Guild 
   * Conflux/Path of Antman
   * Conflux/Path of Beowuuf
   * Conflux/Path of Joramun 

or to

   * Path of Parallax
         o Parallax adventure journal with the Maleficient Guild 
   * Path of Antman
   * Path of Beowuuf
   * Path of Joramun 

I don't know how to fix this. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

I've changed that now; I think that the structure should be [Conflux/Path…|Path…]. The first part must be retained, because the pages must reside in the Conflux namespace. The second part, the readable text, I think, should not be prefixed with "Conflux/", because this doesn't look good, distracts the reader, and doesn't provide useful information, the reader already knows to be inside the Conflux section of the wiki. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

I propose we harveset the information in "Levels notes" for the base information for each of the Places pages and enhance them with spoiler tags where appropriate. I also propose we move forward with the intention of moving the existing "Level notes" page to a legacy setion. We can then state that the doc may be out of date. It really is one big giant spoiler and won't really be necesary once Places is fully populated. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

As a first measure I've placed a spoiler warning behind the link and an explanation what this text really is.

The entries listed as TODO need to be elimnated as is possible. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

Yes, indeed, but this will take time. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

The Creature page is missing a number of monsters, so we'll need either someone to extract them or screen captures. As long as we are consistent there shouldn't be a problem, and I look forward to your help in both keeping my "speeling" honest and in completing the wiki. --Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

I'm not a native english speaker, so probably not the best choice for this task. However, I noticed that you often place opening brackets(directly) behind a letter, which is typographically wrong (this is correct instead). Also, in english you make no spaces before :?!, that's a french habit. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

--Phoenix 12:19am 8 October 2012 (EST5)

A listing of all existing wiki pages!

http://dmwiki.atomas.com/wiki/Special:AllPages

This is really a great help, didn't know that this was implemented in the Mediawiki. --CHF 22:55, 11 October 2012 (CEST)

Your comment about parentheticals is noted. I'll try and make a concious effort to do better in the future. I know what you mean about language issues. I've had to go back an re-edit a bunch of sections to correct armor/armour spellings. Armor is a strictly American spelling. I've replaced them with armour which the rest of the world uses.

Phoenix 00:05, 12 October 2012 (EST5)

Those might have been edits by Americans, and "Armor" is not wrong, so I've not corrected that in the past. --CHF 13:23, 12 October 2012 (CEST)

Armour is the in-game spelling.

Not totally consistent, Smaug gives the "Dragon Armor". Zyx is a french speaker, however, so it's clear that he favours the "ou" spellings. --CHF 06:48, 14 October 2012 (CEST)

Phoenix 14:39, 12 October 2012 (EST5)

What's the difference between Cellar and Storage Cellar? I mean the level name is Cellar and the Hint Oracle refers to a Spectre being a Storage Guardian. It also calls the rats and chewers Cellar denizens.

Phoenix 15:03, 13 October 2012 (EST5)

The same rectangular area where the Hint Oracle text with the headline "Storage Guardian" appears has another headline "Storage Cellar". No other Cellar map squares have this text. So the Storage Cellar is clearly the small rectangular area at the bottom of the equally named Guild stairs. The connection to the main Cellar area is the openable wall to the east there.

It's the "equivalent" to the Wine Cellar to the south.

The headline "Cellar Denizens" appears on most map squares on the level, this is what the Hint Oracle considers to belong to the Cellar as a whole.

Unfortunately the in-game use of the Oracle is impractical to investigate that, but if you use the highlight function of the wiki's online maps, you can clearly see that, and it's very logical.

Therefore I've changed that, and call the whole thing "Cellar", and the smaller subdivisions "Wine Cellar" and "Storage Cellar". The Oracle also mentions some ridlles and the rat generator, so that's all consistent.

I've not yet updatet the "levels notes", however, so there are wrong highlights in the maps left and many missing references to the Conflux/Places descriptions.

--CHF 06:48, 14 October 2012 (CEST)